Stephen Heiner with guest, Father Arnold Trauner, IMBC.
The Second Vatican Council, Episode 9: The Laity, Religious, and Collegiality (Season 7, 27 October 2018, ~28mins).
With the focus of the Second Vatican Council (VII) in this episode, guest, Father Arnold Trauner, IMBC, joins our host Stephen Heiner in discussing the true role of laity and religious, as distinct to what the VII Fathers propounded during various schema discussions. For the modernists, it seems wreaking havoc on the laity and religious is ‘just’ another progression in their schemas, having already ‘successfully pigeonholed Our Lady’…
Canon Law says that by Divine Institution, the Church is divided into hierarchy and the laity; all those who participate in Holy Orders and those who don’t… [laymen] are members of the Church and each member has its proper function. ~ Father Trauner.
The disastrous digression from the traditional notion of the laity (as defined in Church Law) is further found in the comments proposed by Bishop (Wright) from Pittsburgh. Stephen Heiner, himself, is surprised with a quote from the bishop who sensationally claimed that ‘the faithful have been waiting for 400 years for a positive conciliar statement on the place, dignity and vocation of the layman.’ Ironically, as Father Trauner clarifies, ‘there’s only been one Council after Trent,’ which leads into a humorous discussion between Father and Stephen as to people having lived 400 years to hear the answer to the question!
There’s nothing that adjudicates laymen are being despised by the Church – no way! … They are members of the Church and each member has its proper function. ~ Father Trauner.
You will enjoy hearing how Father Trauner clarifies that there is a positive division to distinguish laity from the rest of the community, as opposed to a preoccupation from bishops who seemed incessantly to challenge rhetoric. As Stephen Heiner notes, it seems to be a case of the bishops ‘looking for a problem when there is no problem,’ where ‘suddenly everything is being questioned’ so much so that even the most basic, even the most fundamental objective mathematical calculation such ‘2 + 2’ might be explored, in such a way so as to make it uncertain that 2 + 2 = 4! It becomes a case of certain figures trying to have their voices heard, which our listeners can perhaps see a greater problem with, in the discussions that ensue between Stephen Heiner and Father Trauner.
‘The people of God’. – Montini (‘Paul VI’).
Using one of Montini’s favourite expressions, which now describe the members of the Church, Father Trauner critiques how this perhaps minor-appearing attitude has instilled a ‘democratic mindset,’ where the contemptuous Principle of ‘equality,’ another one of the French Revolution’s principles, has concocted the inadequacy of someone in a position of authority. It is fascinating how this has then gone into devastating the priesthood too, given ‘this democratical [sic] spirit, as opposed to a clearly structured hierarchical spirit.’
Many VII Council Fathers found it hard to understand the cardinal’s hasty manner and his seemingly arbitrary reduction of the time allowed to the speakers. ~ Stephen Heiner.
It is fitting to how side-by-side with the Chapter on the Laity there has been discussion of the Chapter on the Religious. If listeners enjoy discussions about Liberals, a European Alliance and World Alliances, the following discourse between Stephen Heiner and Father Trauner will prove fascinating as to how Cardinal Duffner overstepped societal norms through these means. Especially so, upon learning the manner in which Cardinal Duffner intervened during speeches in relation to the Council Fathers on 30 October!
This was the first defeat for the European Alliance; its iron grip on the Council had been broken, because the group had come into being comparable powers of organisation. – Father Wilkin, as read by Stephen Heiner.
Following the incidents by Cardinal Duffner, which were ironic in their nature, many religious were upset. So much so, that a new Alliance was created, and on 11 November, a number of bishops (of these religious congregations) got together and put together the ‘Bishop’s Secretariat.’ A Postulate was also put together, which served to advance their position which then came to the proper authorities, the Secretary General of the Council. Interestingly, this Postulate was signed by 679 of the Council Fathers, and which served to revise the Schema to include a new Chapter specifically designated to the religious!
Such actions will show listeners the importance of organisations having their voices heard, especially in times when a small group of people had otherwise controlled the Council. Even more importantly, given the dangers Father Trauner raises in terms of how the holiness of the Church (on earth, as opposed to Heaven), has been dangerously undermined with heretical statements such as the ‘Church on earth is never perfectly holy,' listeners will find it intriguing to hear how Father Trauner deals with such an ambiguous statement in relation to being in a state of sanctifying grace, the Saints and in relation to the Church Militant.
She [the Church] is holy, as the Catechism says, in her Founder, in Doctrine, the liturgy, and in many of her members… (the Church, as an institution, created by Our Lord). ~ Father Trauner.
So, such heretical statements are ‘total nonsense’ according to Father Trauner, given the Church, as an institution, was created by Our Lord, with ‘members that are holy, in a state of grace; others that are not holy: that is in a state of sin; but, it doesn’t mean that the Church is not perfectly holy!’ This goes to show the terrible consequences of collegiality, but how intervention by Cardinal Ottaviani, fighting back against the theological poison of collegiality and false ‘doctrine,’ together with the alliance of religious, are effective tools against the problematic modernists.
Though the issue of collegiality has previously been discussed in earlier episodes, and in this series, listeners should find the discourse between Stephen Heiner and Father Trauner enlightening, as they make sense of the confusion on the nature of episcopal succession. The Early Fathers and Apostles certainly provide for intriguing discussion, together with learning more about a very concerning remark by Cardinal Ottaviani, as reported to Father Wilkin. It is a sad state of affairs where the declining power of the curia is prominent, particularly the declining power of Cardinal Ottaviani, where within the Council he could not yield the powers he ordinarily did outside the Council (where his authority would not be questioned). Yet, listeners will see how the proliferation of the modernists created for a Cardinal Ottaviani to be seen as just another ‘brother bishop,’ or in his case, a ‘brother cardinal’…
Be shocked by the disastrous comments by the Indian Archbishop de Souza, where the curia were completely undermined through the promotion of collegiality. It could be said that an ‘anti-curia’ was being invented, moving away from the structure and concepts of the Church, as Our Lord instituted her, to one of ecumenism.
Become an annual member to hear the whole episode which includes even more disturbing comments by Archbishop de Souza, and how Common Law and Divine Law were conflated, with ‘giving some rights to the Apostolic See,’ along with what Father Trauner considers an ‘unbelievable confusion of ideas’ to particularly the ‘primus inter pares’ and unprecedented false ‘equality.’ It is a disaster as to how ‘there is total confusion between the sacramental and juridical level of the papacy, of the episcopacy,’ yet according to commentary by Father Wilkin, allegedly ‘Archbishop de Souza’s address was greeted with tremendous applause.’ Should we go where the applause is the loudest?… Of course not!
Listeners should stay tuned to hear more about the close of the Second Session of the Vatican Council II in the next episode. And perhaps may also enjoy the humour of the song in the closing credits!
